SUSTAINABLE WATER AND WASTE WATER SYSTEMS IMPROVEMENT AND MAINTENANCE ACT, 2010 / LOI DE 2010 SUR LA VIABILITÉ ET L’AMÉLIORATION DES RÉSEAUX D’APPROVISIONNEMENT EN EAU ET D’EAUX USÉES

Mr. Caplan moved second reading of the following bill:

Bill 237, An Act to sustain and encourage improvement in Ontario’s water and waste water services and to establish the Ontario Water Board / Projet de loi 237, Loi visant à assurer la viabilité des services d’approvisionnement en eau et des services relatifs aux eaux usées de l’Ontario et à favoriser leur amélioration et créant la Commission des eaux de l’Ontario.

Read the original posting here.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Pursuant to standing order 98, the honourable member, Mr. Caplan, has up to 12 minutes for his presentation.

Mr. David Caplan: At the outset of my remarks, I’d like to introduce Mr. Chris McNally, director at large of the Ontario Sewer and Watermain Construction Association.

I had established at first reading that sustaining and improving our water and waste water systems while retaining public ownership of our water utilities is fundamental to protecting our drinking water. I’m concerned about the condition of our water and waste water systems.

One of the challenges is that many Ontarians today have an inadequate knowledge about the condition of their water systems. Indeed, decades of underinvestment and planning have threatened the future of water services. Essential investments have been neglected and we are now at a detrimental stage. In many cases, the water pipes have surpassed their maximum life expectancy.

In some municipalities, including certain areas of Ottawa, for example, parts of water systems date back to the 19th century, as early as the 1870s. Here in the city of Toronto half of the water network is at least 50 years old and almost 10% is more than 100 years old. This aging system is vulnerable to increasing breaks. It’s estimated that the city of Toronto now has more than, on average, 1,500 water main breaks per year. That’s over four per day.

Well-maintained and well-functioning water and waste water systems underpin our very quality of life. For far too long, we’ve failed to give water its full value. Changes need to be made in the way Ontario’s water and waste water systems are organized, governed and regulated. If gone unnoticed, I believe this will pose a major threat to our public health and safety, environment, and will cause economic hardship.

With regard to human health, toxic lead pipes, corroded water pipes and broken sewer pipes are a potential source of drinking water contamination. With regard to the environment, broken water and waste water pipes can contaminate rivers and lakes, making such sources detrimental for drinking and recreation and threatening wildlife and fish stocks. Regarding the economy, broken water mains often cause disruptions in traffic, significant property damage and substantial costs to our cities and to our society at large.

For all of those aforementioned reasons, this act is important to all Ontarians. Clean, safe drinking water ensures that Ontario is strong, healthy and prosperous.

This bill, Bill 237, evolves from Justice O’Connor’s recommendations from the Walkerton inquiry, which provide the regulatory aspects and steps needed to prevent similar events from occurring elsewhere; and from the water strategy expert panel’s report-and I thank Dr. Swain for his work-which makes recommendations on all aspects of organization, governance, investment, financing and pricing related to Ontario’s water and waste water systems.

This year, in May, marks the 10th anniversary of the Walkerton water tragedy, when 5,000 residents of the town of Walkerton, Ontario-when their water system became contaminated with E. coli bacteria. By the end of the tragedy, at least seven people had died from drinking water with E. coli contamination and over 2,500 people became sick.

By enacting this bill, we will be taking the necessary measures to ensure that safe, reliable and sustainable water and waste water systems are available to future generations in Ontario.

I’d like to outline what’s in the act. The purposes of the act are several-fold:

-to ensure that public ownership of water and waste water systems is maintained. If implemented, this bill would completely rule out private ownership. It’s imperative, in my opinion, that we keep water and waste water systems in public hands;

-to promote financial stability. This bill would promote full cost accounting and full cost recovery of water and waste water services. And I want to give credit where credit is due: A previous government did introduce, in Bill 155, these very same measures. It would encourage an increase in scale and capacity in the provision of water and waste water services to minimize costs to the ratepayers, both business and residents;

-to improve transparency in the provision of water and waste water services to the public. This would be done through the establishment of publicly owned municipal corporations;

-to create an independent economic regulator, the Ontario water board. The Ontario water board will have the expertise and authority to administer the act. The responsibilities of the board: It would exercise its powers and duties in the public interest and in accordance with the principles of honesty, integrity and social responsibility. So it would be responsible for, amongst other things, protecting the interests of consumers with respect to pricing and reliability and the quality of water systems; promoting economic efficiency and cost-effectiveness in the provision of water and waste water services; facilitating the maintenance of a financially viable water and waste water industry in our province; promoting water conservation in a manner that is consistent with the policies of the government.

There are other benefits, and I’d just like to highlight one in particular, and that is energy savings. Besides the significant public health benefits of the legislation, the act will result in major energy savings for communities.

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Water is the number one energy user in municipalities around Ontario. It’s a fact that across Ontario, most of the energy is often wasted due to the leakage and other inefficiencies contained within our system. Many drinking water distribution systems have leakage rates ranging from 10% to 50%. The average: 25% of every drop of water that is purified and sent through the system is lost through leakage in the system. That is incredibly inefficient, and the people who pay for it are the water users and ratepayers themselves. This legislation would help reduce the burden of wasting energy as a result of more reliable and more environmentally sustainable water and waste water systems.

Lastly, many citizens have an inadequate knowledge of the condition of our water and waste water systems and are thus operating with an inadequate plan for long-term sustainability. If implemented, this act will reveal the “out of sight, out of mind” aspects of our water and waste water system by bringing often-hidden vital services into broad daylight. In turn, this will provide our citizens with the peace of mind that safe, reliable and affordable water and waste water systems are in place. In fact, I believe it will encourage economic development and activity by providing that peace of mind to our business communities as well.

But others have written to me and have commented about this legislation, the Sustainable Water and Waste Water Systems Improvement and Maintenance Act, or SWIM, as it has become known. I quote:

“The Residential and Civil Construction Alliance of Ontario believes that Bill 237 contains a number of important elements that lay the groundwork for creating truly worthwhile and transformative legislation that will provide the necessary guidance to municipalities to provide for ‘full-cost recovery’ for both the capital and operating elements of public water and waste water provision…. The adoption of this bill will be integral to the successful implementation of regional economic prosperity efforts, and to the goals envisioned in the ‘Places to Grow’ legislation where growth is directed to priority areas…. This model for water and sewer services has been on the Queen’s Park ‘to do list’ for many years…. Will our collective patience finally be rewarded?” That’s Andy Manahan, executive director of the Residential and Civil Construction Alliance of Ontario.

I quote: “By passing this bill, the provincial government will ensure effective delivery and maintenance of water and waste water services that will ensure the success of Ontario’s growth plan…. We look forward to working with Mr. Caplan and the provincial government to help inform and educate the public of the need for legislation to ensure the sustainability of our greatest provincial resource.” That was Greg White, president, and Joe Accardi, executive director, Ontario Sewer and Watermain Construction Association.

“The creation of an Ontario water board will serve as an independent economic regulator that will provide and promote financial sustainability and transparency, and safeguard the quality of Ontario’s water for future generations…. We are proud to support your legislation, and look forward to working with you on this significant and progressive piece of legislation.” That was Leith Moore, chair of the Building Industry and Land Development Association here in Ontario.

“Your bill will compel municipalities to create realistic infrastructure investment and maintenance plans, while ensuring that citizens are not overcharged for services. Protecting our sewer and surface water systems is crucial for protecting public health and private property. The Insurance Bureau of Canada … fully supports your efforts, and will watch the progress of this bill with great interest”-from Ralph Palumbo, vice-president, Ontario, the Insurance Bureau of Canada.

I have as well: “There are two things in life which we cannot do without-one is air to breathe, and the second is water to drink; these are essentials to life. Your bill picks up where the Walkerton report stopped. It builds a responsible structure in which we can be the stewards we need to be for this precious” yet “finite resource. A system whereby the responsible decisions, infrastructure and monetary support for clean water is essential for the survival of our civilized society. We are blessed” and must “have access to the Great Lakes, and as such we must show leadership and water stewardship. Thank you for taking that leadership.” That was Jennifer Mossop, former MPP and co-chair of Aquafest eco-festival on Lake Huron.

In conclusion, water and waste water infrastructure in Ontario have been on a steady decline for decades. It is clearly time, in my opinion, to take action. With the recommended changes in Bill 237, most water services in Ontario can become sustainable with neither undue financial burden on ratepayers nor threats to our public health. The sooner we act, the sooner we start to save costs and the sooner we can start to maintain a strong water sector in Ontario that will be sustainable for decades to come. I strongly believe that Bill 237 is the right legislation at the right time for a problem that will not go away without attention.

Water is an essential part of life for all Ontarians, and we have taken it for granted for far too long. Clean, safe drinking water ensures that Ontario is strong, healthy and prosperous. It’s time to make a change.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Ted Arnott): Further debate?

Mr. Toby Barrett: As I review Bill 237, the Sustainable Water and Waste Water Systems Improvement and Maintenance Act, I get a sense of déjà vu. We have been here before, and history is indeed repeating itself this afternoon with the introduction of this bill and many of the concepts inherent in this bill.

We all know it’s a private member’s bill-it’s not a government bill-but we’ve got concepts like water waste reporting and commitments to full cost recovery, which is very important. It builds on work from legislation that was actually passed by this House in 2002, when the previous government worked through Bill 175, the Sustainable Water and Sewage Systems Act.

We know that imitation is one of the more sincere forms of flattery, but the truth is that like any sequel aiming to echo the strength of its predecessor, this legislation really doesn’t reach the bar of the original. It’s true that, here as well, there are some striking similarities between this private member’s bill and the government bill that’s sitting there now. As the member opposite pointed out, nothing was done with it for the last seven years, but there are some similarities.

But the question is, what happened over the past seven years? Where are the regulations? We haven’t been in government in seven years. What happened to Bill 175? It was designed to achieve the kinds of goals we’re talking about this afternoon. What happened to that legislation? It received royal assent in 2002. Why do we have to go through all of this all over again, close to eight years later? We had the report, the plans, the entrenched notion of full cost recovery for waste water and water services. It passed third and final reading and received royal assent on December 13, 2002. What has happened in the past seven years? Obviously not too much.

It has been pointed out by Joe Accardi, executive director of the Ontario Sewer and Watermain Construction Association-I know his name was mentioned just a few minutes ago-that the guts of Bill 175 were never enshrined in regulation, certainly not in the last seven years, leaving it in limbo. Today, Mr. Accardi continues to advocate for “legislation and regulation to be in place at the provincial level to ensure dedicated reserve funding through a full cost recovery model.” They’ve been waiting on this government for seven years to do something. What do we get? A private member’s bill. It’s a frustrating thing.

I’ll read this in a second, but these concepts are already in place and ready to be enshrined in regulation, and there they’ve sat for close to eight years. The precedent from our previous government was set with Bill 175. I’ll just go back to that original eight-year-old legislation. I quote from the law:

“Regulated entities”-municipalities, for example-”are required to prepare and approve a report concerning the provision of water services and waste water services.

“The act specifies that the full cost of providing services includes source protection costs, operating costs, financing costs, renewal and replacement costs and improvement costs. The full cost may also include other costs specified in the regulations,” which have never come forward from this government.

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“Each regulated entity is also required to prepare a cost recovery plan describing how it intends to pay the full cost of providing the services ….

“Once a cost recovery plan is approved, the regulated entity is required to implement it no later than the date specified by regulation.

“The regulations may also specify the maximum amount of any increase in the amounts payable by customers.”

This was enshrined in the legislation. Some of these points will be raised by the member from Simcoe North. We’ll give you four minutes at the end to kind of wrap that up, if that’s okay.

“The minister is authorized to make orders requiring regulated entities to do, or refrain from doing, such things as the minister specifies in order to ensure”-again, here’s the important phrase-”that the entity pays the full cost of providing the services.”

That was eight years ago. This brings us full circle to where we are today-not quite full circle, because, as I noted earlier, the member from Don Valley East made what I consider a noble attempt at imitation, but there are some differences that trigger a number of questions. Before I get to them, I’ll read from the new explanatory note from this proposed bill, Bill 237. There are some alterations.

“The bill establishes the Ontario Water Board as an” agency “of the crown.” Sounds like another crown agency. I don’t know whether we’re going to need this. The Ministry of the Environment is the lead on this stuff. I ask the member opposite to think back to Walkerton. I don’t know whether you want to hand over that kind of responsibility to an unelected, unaccountable board.

At any rate, there are some questions out there. Do we need a whole other level? Do we need another crown corporation to deal with an important issue like this?

“Regulated entities that provide water services or waste water services to fewer than 10,000 customers are required to amalgamate those services with the services of one or more other regulated entities….” It goes on and on. That idea has gone over like a lead balloon in rural Ontario.

“Regulated entities must prepare business plans”-there’s nothing wrong with that-”for the provision of … services…. The plan must contain, among other things, an assessment of the full cost of providing water services or waste water services….” Again, we agree with that. That is all to the good.

Just to fast-forward here, I’ve given you a bit of an overview, comparing both pieces of legislation, and the concerns we have about calling for municipalities to amalgamate services, particularly among far-flung communities and in the north, where you’re dealing with remote communities that would have to link up with other organizations miles away.

One example: information from North Grenville; 2,000 users on service. It may take three or four other municipal partners to amalgamate services under this plan. I don’t know whether that’s realistic or whether that would be doable. Some of these people in the rural municipalities are a little nervous about that one.

I received a copy of a letter addressed to the Premier of Ontario. This was dated February 10. It came from AMO, and I quote: “AMO does not support this bill or the process that a private member’s bill brings;” calling it “one of the most significant changes to municipal water and waste water systems and governance.”

Also, AMO President Hume goes on to address another concern, and he states: “This bill would significantly restructure municipal water and waste water services, a core municipal responsibility, without consultation….” It’s too bad there wasn’t some consultation on this legislation.

I would like to pass my time over, down the road, to the member from Simcoe North.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Further debate?

Mr. Peter Tabuns: It’s a privilege to be able to address this private member’s bill today.

I have no doubt, and I would say that most people in this Legislature would agree, that we have problems with water infrastructure in Ontario. If a doctor diagnoses pneumonia, I think we can agree that there’s pneumonia. I just don’t like a prescription for leeches. That’s essentially what has been presented to us today.

Bill 237 is based on the key recommendations of the report of the water strategy expert panel which was submitted to Mr. Caplan when he was minister of the former Ministry of Public Infrastructure Renewal. In fact, as minister, he had a fair amount of power in his hands to act in a previous capacity. Key recommendations of this report are reflected in Bill 237, including the proposed amalgamation of smaller water and sewer systems that serve fewer than 10,000 customers, full cost recovery for this infrastructure and the establishment of a regulator at the proposed Ontario Water Board for water rates and services.

When I got this bill, I checked around and asked others their opinion. The Council of Canadians, which has done a large amount of work on water in this country-in fact, it’s seen as a leading advocate for the protection of Canadian water and Canadian water systems-summarizes the bill as follows: “The act will result in the forced corporatization of municipal water and waste water services, the loss of public control and steep increases in tariffs for Ontarians, and absolve the provincial and federal governments of their responsibilities to address Ontario’s water and waste water infrastructure deficit.”

I would say that is not a particularly promising kind of bill; I think they have summarized it well. There are quite a few people who don’t like this bill. Clearly the Council of Canadians doesn’t. I don’t like this bill. Simply based on their assessment in that one paragraph, I would say that I don’t think this Legislature, and you as legislators, should be voting in favour of this bill.

The Canadian Environmental Law Association does not like this bill. They have a very solid reputation for action on water issues, and they have tremendous credibility in their assessment of these issues. You should know that they acted as counsel, representing concerned citizens of Walkerton-a group of 500 local residents-in the inquiry following the water contamination incident. CELA prepared reports in relation to the provision of safe drinking water, which were submitted to the Walkerton inquiry during phase two.

The organization has considerable experience and expertise in relation to the issues that were addressed in the expert panel’s report. In fact, they wrote a document: Comments of the Canadian Environmental Law Association Regarding “Watertight: The case for change in Ontario’s water and wastewater sector.” In their review of the panel report, they found that a number of the panel’s key recommendations were fundamentally at odds with Justice O’Connor’s recommendations. CELA expressed great concern “that the governance model and the institutional arrangements recommended by the expert panel would significantly erode public accountability and transparency over the operations of water systems in the province.” Based simply on that statement, I have to say that one should not be voting in favour of this private member’s bill.

They went on: “Furthermore, it would unnecessarily divert a substantial amount of the provincial government’s resources and staff time to establishing new institutional structures and operations which will be largely redundant, costly and unwarranted. It is CELA’s view that the provincial government’s efforts should instead be directed to abiding by its commitment to implement all the recommendations from the part two report of the Walkerton inquiry.”

They note that the panel that wrote the Watertight report cited a company called EPCOR, which is owned by the city of Edmonton, as a model example of a corporatized utility, exactly what is being promoted in this bill. The well-respected Parkland Institute raised serious concerns about EPCOR’s accountability. The Parkland Institute comments:

“On EPCOR’s board there is a lack of participation and oversight by city council and other stakeholders. The utilities EPCOR controls are no longer the subject of democratic decision-making and there is no requirement for public transparency. The city cannot set the operational priorities like environmental protection or wisely managed, cost-efficient development. Finally, direct accountability to the public has been curtailed. The corporatized utilities model is no longer subject to the Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act. Key documents governing EPCOR’s accountability with the city are unavailable to the public.”

You have the Council of Canadians and the Canadian Environmental Law Association-nationally recognized organizations and advocates for clean, safe drinking water-saying that the basis for this bill is not the basis for protection of the water supply of Ontarians. I think on that basis alone, we in this chamber should be setting this bill aside, voting against it today, and moving on to actually dealing with the substantial problems we do have with water in this province.

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Now, the speaker from the opposition noted the opposition of AMO, the Association of Municipalities of Ontario. I just want to read comments from their statement on January 5, 2010. They say, “The bill could result in the most significant restructuring of the governing, costing and operations of water and waste water services across Ontario. Restructuring of a core municipal government service to the degree that this private member’s bill proposes runs counter to the principle of building a fully informed piece of legislation through a consultation process…. If the government’s intent is to pursue such a significant reform to municipal water services, then it should come forward with a white paper and undertake a full consultation with the municipal order of government.”

On the website cottagecountrynow.ca, in the area of Muskoka and Parry Sound, there’s commentary from East Ferris mayor Bill Vrebosch, who sits on the board of AMO. “‘I don’t understand what Caplan is doing,’ he said, stating most bills are brought forward to the AMO before being presented in the House, but as a private member’s bill [it] doesn’t have to go through this process. ‘It’s kind of a backdoor approach.’” He noted the requirement for a minimum of 10,000 users in a system. He said that in the north this can be massive, saying “the water corporation’s expanse would be massive potentially running from Burk’s Falls to Temagami.”

In North Grenville, there were comments in the Kemptville EMC by reporter Ashley Kulp that CAO Andy Brown had reported to the Committee of the Whole on January 18 that if the bill should pass, it would “drastically change the way North Grenville residents receive and pay for waste and waste water services.” In addition to a variety of changes he cites, it says that “the complete cost of the water will include source protection costs. However, Brown outlined that the province is fully funding these costs currently and ‘it is clear that this bill could end that practice and pass it on to the water users…. In the end, the proposed bill will remove decision-making for water and waste water from municipal councils,’ Brown explained.”

Now, I want to say to MPPs in the chamber who represent rural and small-town areas, those from Lambton-Kent-Middlesex, Oxford, Glengarry-Prescott-Russell, those who deal with the problems that we face in Ontario in rural and small-town areas, that you have a responsibility to look out for the interests of your constituents, and if you fail to do so, you should be considering a career change when the next election comes, because this will not be a popular bill. This bill will not protect your residents. This bill will be a download. This bill will be stage two of the amalgamation process that many communities went through so painfully. So if you want to follow Mr. Caplan in his efforts to help you move on out of political life, then so be it, but if you want to protect your constituents, defeat this bill today.

I want to say to the Premier’s office that if, in fact, you want to say to your candidate in Leeds-Grenville that that candidate shouldn’t be respecting the interests and needs of those constituents, then turn your back on the people and have your ministers support this bill. If you want more amalgamation, more privatization and more downloading, then the vehicle to do that has arrived in this chamber, and today we have the opportunity to discuss it.

I find it very strange that the member is bringing this bill forward. As has been said, he was the Minister of Public Infrastructure Renewal for a number of years; he was in place when the recommendations came forward. He could have acted then. Frankly, if he wanted to move forward on a Conservative piece of legislation, he could have, within cabinet, moved forward the regulations that would have allowed implementation of the earlier model of this bill.

I know that there’s a significant problem with water and sewage services in this province. There is a figure being used of $700 million a year that’s being lost in water that is leaking out of the system. Even if that’s an estimate that’s double the value, $350 million a year is a huge volume of cash that is being lost to the people of this province.

If we want to deal with that, what we need is a partnering between the provincial government and the municipalities to provide the funding to make sure that that infrastructure is corrected with the repayment coming from the savings. That is a lot of money to be, quite literally, running it into the earth-a lot of money. That approach, I think, can work.

We have seen a downloading to municipalities that has strangled infrastructure investment. That downloading has not been corrected, and thus we continue to see an underinvestment in our infrastructure. We will pay for that.

But to bring forward something that is not a solution and use the problem as a cover for passing these kinds of measures is a mistake. I call for everyone in this House to vote today against this bill and stand up for the environment and for public ownership of water systems.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Further debate?

Mr. Glen R. Murray: I’m not sure what province the previous speaker lives in, but it can’t be Ontario.

I read the Council of Canadians’ paper as well. It was a fascinating piece. What are they opposed to? They’re opposed to metering and cost recovery. The alternate of that is called perverse subsidy; it’s what most environmentalists, like most of us on this side of the House, believe is wrong. You don’t raise people’s other taxes to use water and sewer to subsidize sprawl, because in addition to the problems that we have had in Canada with broken water and sewer systems, it’s a massive subsidy because people don’t pay their own way, because we’ve put sewer and water in places it doesn’t make sense to do. Taxpayers can’t sustain it.

This government, quite frankly, has done more than any other I can find in the country in the last seven years: Places to Grow, the greenbelt. Tax reform is repricing and replanning urban development to powerfully reinforce the containment and more efficient use of our water system. Far from being johnny-come-latelies, this is the next logical step in this process. Quite frankly, if previous governments had committed to the land use, transportation and sustainability strategies and the fiscal policy to support them, these kinds of policies would have had traction.

The other thing I find disappointing from my friends in the NDP is fear-mongering, because I’m happy to take this bill to the honourable member’s constituents in Toronto Centre, Toronto-Danforth and Trinity-Spadina and all my neighbours in downtown Toronto and talk about the values that are in this. This is about sustainability. This is a reward for people who are making environmentally positive choices, and it ends perverse subsidy. This is exactly what the member, in my mind, from Toronto-Danforth should be standing up and voting for in this House because this is advancing the values of his constituents.

What are those values that this bill is actually trying to achieve? This is a bill that moves us from living off the interest, understanding the scarcity of water in our watersheds-we are, in Toronto, in one of the most important watersheds in this country. All that you have to do is look at the ravines that bisect most of our constituencies to understand the powerful nature of water and its importance.

We need to have collaborative planning-hardly a threat to rural communities. I came from, as some of you have pointed out today, a part of the country that has low levels of population. We may want to look to our friends in Manitoba and the NDP government there that introduced watershed planned regional collaboration. Far from being something that didn’t get them elected, it got a lot of New Democrats elected because there was a collaborative model around funding and planning, because this also brings to the table data, financing strategies and the kind of knowledge resources we need not only to protect our water supply and ensure we’re living off the interest and not diminishing the principal of our water supplies; it allows to us do something that we Liberals believe in, and it separates us from the Tories and New Democrats.

The Tories who hacked and slashed and gutted infrastructure and downloaded created a crisis that led to water conservation problems and an enduring infrastructure crisis. The alternative is actually to build the tax burden, to continue to support policies of perverse subsidy or simply raise everyone’s taxes, which seems to be the NDP’s solution to most problems, and have everyone pay through the nose to deal with it.

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What planning does-and it’s a system that started in Europe, called value planning-is it allows you to understand the return on investment, because we all understand that well-planned, efficient, environmentally sustainable water in cities builds the tax base. When you coordinate transportation and land use planning, you get and cluster development. You organize your resources so you are using less pipe and less infrastructure to serve people than you otherwise would. You not only save money on the cost side; you increase property values, you increase asset values and you create a growing tax base. Every time you put in efficient, well-planned streets, transit and water, you build the value of property, reducing the overall tax burden, because you raise your revenues from a growing tax base rather than a growing tax burden, consistent with the HST and our tax reform.

It’s amazing to me the selectivity of some of my friends in opposition about who they listen to. I’ve heard New Democrats almost worship at the foot of the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives, and all of a sudden this is an organization that has no value to them when they come out and endorse the HST. I hear them worship-I have acute respect for Jim Stanford and the CAW. As soon as the CAW comes out and says the HST will actually create hundreds of thousands of jobs and will continue to help sustain our auto sector, all of a sudden those folks are nothing but Liberal supporters’ daily food bank.

I have a lot of respect for the Council of Canadians. So let’s look at what they talk about. Forced amalgamation: There’s no forced amalgamation. This is a choice-based system. Quite frankly, when you’ve spent as much time as I have in northwestern Ontario-I was mayor of a city, as was mentioned earlier, called Winnipeg. We took garbage from northwestern Ontario and brought it to Manitoba and put it in our landfill, because it was leaching into the watershed and the water supply of many municipalities in northwestern Ontario and destroying the quality of life, which undermined their tourism and their economic base.

Far from being a horrible thing that rural members and remote members should be afraid of, the local leadership of an MPP in working with mayors, community leaders, non-profit environmental groups and residents’ groups to look at how we can get efficiencies of scale, protect our environment and secure our water resources for the future is exactly the kind of thing that you would expect the NDP to support, not be against. I’m quite happy to go out and knock on doors in any community, with any rural or remote member and not only defend this; I’d love to have the debate with the local New Democrats or Conservatives who would like to make the case against this. Because it’s ironic to me that where the great water crises have been, for those of us who have proudly been Ontarians for a good chunk of our lives but are no less proud Canadians because we’ve lived in other places, are places like the Battlefords.

All of these horror stories that are being whipped up have actually been happening often at the hands of democratically elected municipal councils. That’s not to diminish the role or importance of municipal councils. Simply to say that the construct of a local governance model is inherently the causal effect of a system of water failure is completely spurious, not really worthy of debate, in my mind.

I want to just conclude by saying that one group of people I like is Pollution Probe. They talk a lot in their last report on water management about something called “jurisdiction best-placed.” They talk about the need for provinces and municipalities to create collaborative partnerships, to align resources, to get into better planning and to use data better. This comes pretty darned close. As far as AMO, this is the beginning of a consultation process. Even as a newbie here, I know a little bit about the legislative process. I know my friend Mr. Caplan, the member for Don Valley East, is one of the most consultative people I’ve ever worked with, coming from the non-profit sector. We need not fear that, and I’m sure my friends at AMO don’t.

Mr. Speaker, thank you for giving me the time to speak today.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Further debate?

Mr. Garfield Dunlop: I’m pleased to join in the debate this afternoon on Bill 237. I want to go back to what my colleague Mr. Barrett was saying when he mentioned Bill 175. When the member originally stood up today, he mentioned the Walkerton inquiry. That’s now 10 years-10 years in June. We promised the citizens of the province of Ontario that we would move quickly on those recommendations. That’s why the previous government, the Progressive Conservative government, brought Bill 175 forward; and since that time, since the bill was proclaimed, we’ve had actually no action. There have been no regulations brought forward. This House has passed it. In fact, the government, right today, could bring regulations forward on Bill 175.

However, I understand that the bill will be controversial. I’ve got letters here from the Council of Canadians. There’s a form letter being sent out to a number of people who are objecting to the bill. They’re asking us to vote against it, and I can sympathize with them. But this is the first step. It’s a step where we debate second reading here in the Legislature, and if this House passes the bill or it passes second reading today, we have the opportunity to go to committee. That’s how this process works.

You know what? The Council of Canadians can come and bring their points forward. The environmental law association can bring their points forward. Some of our constituents-even AMO can bring their concerns forward. We can make amendments to the bill.

I recall being part of the Bill 175 hearings. Some of the folks came from the Ontario Sewer and Water Main Construction Association. You know what? I remember they brought in a cross-section of a 16-inch cast iron pipe that they’d had cut out. Right in front of our eyes they showed us a pipe that had been cut out, and it was down to four inches in the centre. That’s how much iron had built up inside the pipe.

We need do something. Sitting back and complaining and saying that this legislation is no good or that Bill 175 is no good is not good enough. We have to make sure those pipes are repaired in an orderly fashion and in a fashion that will be good for the environment, as well as for the citizens and their drinking water in Ontario.

I don’t have a problem, as a member of the Progressive Conservative Party, seeing this bill go to committee and listening to AMO, listening to our constituents and the Council of Canadians. I’ve had a great deal of work with the Council of Canadians just this year with the site 41 issue up in Tay township. They were strong advocates and helped us a tremendous amount-Maude Barlow and her group.

When we look at this, we have to keep an open mind. The bill does cover full-cost recovery, which is something Bill 75 did as well. However, you know what? This doesn’t prohibit municipalities in Ontario from getting grants like the stimulus package or from some of our infrastructure programs or the Canada-Ontario infrastructure programs. Those are all programs that will still be available for municipalities.

I understand there is an impact on rural Ontario municipalities, the very small water systems, but you know what? I’m sure we can work around that with proper regulations and proper input. But I think to sit here and just to flatly turn down this kind of bill is no better than having no regulations for Bill 175. We brought that bill forward. We’re disappointed that Bill 175 was never acted upon.

I think we should keep an open mind here. If the government will vote in favour of this and we can get it into some kind of committee hearings, I don’t have a problem with that. I’d look forward to having those hearings, hearing the debate take place and moving forward with a clear vision for our water and waste water systems here in the province.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Further debate?

Mr. Jean-Marc Lalonde: First of all, I want to congratulate the member for Don Valley East for having tabled this bill. It is a very, very important bill. I am a strong believer in water conservation.

I’m just going to speak about two issues that are contained in this bill: first of all, water metering and the second one is the regional system.

First of all, water metering: Way back when I first got elected on council and I became mayor in 1976, there was a public utilities commission in place. At that time, they were an elected body, and they came out with the issue of having metering for all households in the town of Rockland.

Let me tell you, Mr. Speaker, I was against it completely. We used to take one million gallons-not litres-a day of water, and after we got those meters in, we cut it down to 250,000 gallons a day. Three quarters of the water consumption was cut. This is why I’m a strong believer in water metering.

First of all-besides that-when the government is allowing municipalities to go ahead with projects for which we are giving them grants, no grants should be given to any municipality that does not have water meters in operation. I have a municipalitiy that did purchase water meters, but they’re not in operation. They have water meters at the filtration plant, but they’re not operating in every home. So, really, there’s no gain there because from the tap it goes to the waste water, and again it becomes very expensive.

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Secondly, the regional water system-way back in the late 1980s, there was J.L. Richards engineering in Ottawa, a well-known engineering firm that came out with a proposal down in my area of having a regional water system. It would have cost us $31 million to serve nine different municipalities. We didn’t get the support of the government at the time, and one municipality said, “No. Do you know how much this is costing up to now, and we’re not finished yet?” We’re up to over $80 million just to install the water system in those municipalities.

I have a good example here at the present time. They will all be meeting the minister next week. North Glengarry needs the water. They were going to connect to St. Isidore, and it would have cost $27 million just to service 380 households. I said, “It’s impossible, $27 million. Even if you get one third-one third from the feds and the province, it’s not enough.” Now they’re going to go to Cornwall and the St. Lawrence Seaway and they will service six municipalities at the cost of $52 million. I fully support that one because it is going to be a regional one, but all the others-I’m looking at the municipality of Russell right now-$23 million. They could have been part of that $31 million, but the government at the time didn’t push any municipality to go for regional. This is why it’s very important.

The minister mentioned all the leaks or the breakage here in Toronto. We have a system in place in Ontario now where you could repair all the water mains without digging any trench. It is available. The first project was done in Hamilton, I believe, and it happened to come right from my riding. Caesar’s Plumbing is in place right now to fix all those leaks without having to do any trenches and digging in the street that would disrupt the traffic or any business.

I really strongly believe, like the member from the other side said, that we should pass the second reading, and if there are amendments, let’s do it at their hearing.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Mr. Caplan, you have up to two minutes for your response.

Mr. David Caplan: First of all, I’d like to thank all of my colleagues who took the time to comment on Bill 237. The members from Haldimand-Norfolk, Toronto-Danforth, Toronto Centre, Simcoe North and Glengarry-Prescott-Russell, I thank you very much.

I agreed with many of the comments; I disagreed with others. I must say that the member from Toronto Centre particularly impressed me. I think he showed why the people of Toronto Centre have wisely sent somebody who has a tremendous, broad sense of public policy and understanding of these kinds of matters, and will bring that wealth of experience to matters that bear here in this Legislature. I thought he made tremendous sense and brought a great deal.

My colleague from Toronto-Danforth, unfortunately, did not add much of substance to this debate. I say to the member from Toronto-Danforth, I would be happy to debate you here or in any place around the province of Ontario when it comes to water conservation, when it comes to infrastructure investment, when it comes to regional planning. Sir, I know that I could beat you hands down any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

I say to my friend from Simcoe North, I know that he has fought battles around water, and I give him a lot of credit because it is a tremendous resource and it is of tremendous importance to the people whom we represent. I do know that he has tremendous understanding and is wise in these matters.

The member from Glengarry-Prescott-Russell I think spoke from very practical experience about the nature of water metering, conservation and the level of investment that’s required.

My colleagues here in the House, this is incredibly important not only for today but for the Ontario that we want tomorrow, the Ontario that will be strong and prosperous, that will have health and safety available, because water is one of our most precious resources. It is something that we have treated with disregard. It must end and it must end now. I do urge you to pass Bill 237 so that we can get on with the job.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): The time provided for private members’ public business has now expired.

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SUSTAINABLE WATER AND WASTE WATER SYSTEMS IMPROVEMENT AND MAINTENANCE ACT, 2010 / LOI DE 2010 SUR LA VIABILITÉ ET L’AMÉLIORATION DES RÉSEAUX D’APPROVISIONNEMENT EN EAU ET D’EAUX USÉES

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Our final ballot item is number 60, standing in the name of Mr. Caplan.

Mr. Caplan has moved second reading of Bill 237, An Act to sustain and encourage improvement in Ontario’s water and waste water services and to establish the Ontario Water Board. Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? I heard some nays.

Read the original posting here.

All those in favour of the motion will please say “aye.”

All those opposed will please say “nay.”

In my opinion, the ayes have it. The bill is carried.

Second reading agreed to.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Mr. Caplan?

Mr. David Caplan: I move that it be referred to the Standing Committee on General Government.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Is it agreed that the bill be referred to the Standing Committee on General Government? Agreed. So ordered.

Orders of the day.

Hon. Linda Jeffrey: I move adjournment of the House.

Interjections.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Jim Wilson): Order. Ms. Jeffrey has moved adjournment of the House. Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

This House stands adjourned until next Monday at 10:30 am.

The House adjourned at 1617.